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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Consensus is all over the place as to a redirect but there does seem to be a consensus that there is insufficient significant coverage to warrant an article. I take it some sources were added late, such as a marriage to a more notable person, but that seems to not help his case, as notability isn't inherited, or married into. A for a redirect, there isn't a clear target, nor clear consensus, so that is a discussion that must be held elsewhere. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 18:52, 23 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ryan Shutte

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Ryan Shutte (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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PRODded with reason "Fails WP:BIO", deprodded with reason "passes WP:CRIN", which is not an official policy/guideline. 0xDeadbeef 08:57, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

In the circumstances I think I tend towards suggesting a partial merge (adding a note) and redirect to List of Northern Districts representative cricketers, particularly as there is the prospect of more coverage so WP:ATD, with its usual points about preserving sources, history, attribution and so on, applies. Obviously if more can be found I'd consider a suggestion to keep the article, but I would need notifying if anything changes. Blue Square Thing (talk) 09:27, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I saw the Telegraph source - it says something about him playing in Scotland (I think), so maybe there's more about him. If not, then redirect to the List of Northern Districts representative cricketers page per WP:ATD, etc. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 11:22, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Source assessment table prepared by User:0xDeadbeef
Source Independent? Reliable? Significant coverage? Count source toward GNG?
Yes I'm not sure if this counts as reliable. Yes ? Unknown
Yes Yes No Only a mention. ✘ No
No Yes ✘ No
Yes No No page author. Yes ✘ No
Yes Yes No Only a mention. ✘ No
Yes Yes No Passing mention. ✘ No
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.
  • Delete. I don't fully agree with 0xDeadbeef's source assessment table (see following), but I agree that the article does not meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTSCRIT #5.
Source assessment table prepared by User:BilledMammal
Source Independent? Reliable? Significant coverage? Count source toward GNG?
Yes Yes No Statistics-only database ✘ No
Yes Yes No Only a mention. ✘ No
No List of matches Ryan Shuttle played in ✘ No
Yes Yes No Routine game coverage; WP:SPORTSCRIT #4 requires "reports beyond routine game coverage.". ✘ No
No Only mention is a quote from his partner Yes No Only a mention. ✘ No
Yes Yes No Passing mention. ✘ No
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.
BilledMammal (talk) 05:07, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Per WP:BASIC, multiple independent sources can be combined in lieu of one source to show significant coverage. This moving getting towards on that level of coverage and might suggest weakly keeping rather than firm deleting. Blue Square Thing (talk) 05:17, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
In addition to the routine match coverage, all we have on him is: Also to receive the converted Northern Districts baggy cap for his first first-class appearance for the Association is Ryan Shutte. All-rounder Shutte a medium pace, left-hand bat plays in Hamilton having moved to New Zealand from South Africa 18 months ago. and King's 28-year-old fiance, Ryan Shutte, was on the cusp of selection for the Northern Districts cricket team but has put his career on the backburner to become her official manager.
That isn't even close to WP:BASIC, and in any case WP:SPORTSCRIT #5 still applies. BilledMammal (talk) 05:25, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I got myself a bit garbled with the typing. I meant to write "this is moving towards getting onto that level...", not that it's there yet. Wrt BASIC - that's a bold move to suggest that it's lower in the hierarchy than an SNG. Part of the problem with all of this mess is that there are guidelines which contradict each other. Here's one case. Blue Square Thing (talk) 13:29, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 01:39, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete or redirect. I agree with BilledMammal's source assessment above. Not nearly enough coverage to meet GNG or BASIC. JoelleJay (talk) 00:27, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I oppose a redirect here, as there are multiple valid targets that the reader might be searching for - they might be searching for him in relation to his cricket performance, or they might be searching for him in relation to his more notable wife. Choosing one risks confusing the reader, and as such per WP:R#DELETE #1 we should not have a redirect - the search function is more effective. BilledMammal (talk) 06:19, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
How on earth does a redirect make it "unreasonably difficult for users to locate similarly named articles via the search engine"? We can add a note to his entry at the ND cricketers list (as we've done many, many times before) which links to his wife. Dead easy. In fact, I'll go and do it now. I'll note that WP:R#KEEP 1, 2, 3 (because there'll be a link) and 5 all clearly apply. Not even close. Redirects are cheap. Cheaper and more efficient than deleting the article. Honestly, what on earth are we doing having to waste time and energy here - it's either a very weak keep or an obvious redirect. Given that there are sources about him, albeit sketchy ones, that move towards adequate sourcing we shouldn't even be thinking about deletion in the circumstances. Blue Square Thing (talk) 07:08, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The relevant aspect is whether it will make it unreasonably difficult for the reader to find what they are searching for. See also WP:R#ASTONISH; a reader wanting to read about Ryan Shutte, husband of Joelle King, will be astonished to find themselves at a list of cricket players; it is both the wrong location, and a note is insufficient to make it clear to the reader why they have arrived at this list. BilledMammal (talk) 07:28, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Lots of people have multiple interesting things about them. To define him as the husband of someone else rather than for the thing that makes him notable would be odd. I would think someone arriving at the list at point S would probably look in the list for the chap. And then they can read the note that makes everything clear and they can go, "oh, that's interesting, he played cricket as well. I never knew that". Which is sort of the point of an encyclopaedia Blue Square Thing (talk) 08:35, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
rather than for the thing that makes him notable would be odd - he's not notable. And they could read the note, but that requires them to both be aware how Wikipedia notes work, and if they think they are in the wrong location they are unlikely to search for it in the first place - it doesn't meet the requirements of WP:R#ASTONISH, as it is not clear why the reader arrived there, nor is it necessarily the right place for them to arrive. BilledMammal (talk) 09:32, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Notable enough to receive passing mentions in the New Zealand Herald and The Daily Telegraph. Blue Square Thing (talk) 09:55, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: I don't see anything representing consensus in this AFD right now.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 02:03, 13 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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